PROUD FLESH INTER/VIEWS: CHAIRMAN FRED HAMPTON, JR.

When you first got out—of prison, you described yourself as “recently unleashed” [Laughter]. A lot of people don’t know the whole history of your battles with the courts and the state—all of their attempts to kidnap you into the camps, as you’ve said, sure enough. So, could you give us as a break-down of that history or sketch it out for us, however briefly?

Well, my first contact with the U.S. judicial system was on
December 4, 1969, actually before I got here. I speak about how I didn’t get the pre-natal care that a lot of people were able to get by having a doctor place a stethoscope on my mother’s belly. The first piece of steel I ever came in contact with was the steel of the Chicago police department’s revolvers, which was placed on my mother’s eight-and-a-half-months pregnant belly—on December 4, 1969.

I was also “cellies” with my mother—in a jail cell, before I got here, after the assassination of Chairman Fred, and Minister/Captain Mark Clark [of the Illinois chapter of the Black Panther Party, with my mother-to-be as well as other comrades, the survivors of the massacre on Monroe [Street, in Chicago], given trumped-up charges. That was my first contact with the U.S. judicial system.

Throughout my life: trumped-up chargers. . . . One was a trumped-up murder case. At the conclusion of that case, the state’s attorney said in open court, “We’re going to get you on the streets in one way or another, Mr. Hampton.” Two and a half weeks later there was an assassination attempt made on my life. Shortly after that, I was given two trumped-on charges of aggravated arson and subsequently sentenced to eighteen years . . . and at that time they allowed you do half that time.

When you were released, your movement was still restricted, right? Or could you go wherever you wanted to go at that point?

. . . to be politically correct. I went back to serve the community. I was still on parole, travel restrictions, curfew, you name it.

Right now, in fact, we’re working on a campaign entitled “Fight the Frame: Clear Fred’s Name!” We’re still fighting for a pardon based on innocence.

We just got word recently that we’re supposed to be granted an oral argument, an oral hearing, on April 13th in Chicago, Illinois. We’re going to be calling all over for support letters, testimony: I plan to testify myself, also, again pushing forth to fight the frame; to clear my name of the trumped-up charges I was given.

Since you’ve been out. And we read one took place when you were near the gravesite of George Jackson.

Yeah, yeah. Vandalia is the town; in the camps, people refer to the particular camp down there as Klandalia, which is Sumner, Illinois, close to border with Kentucky. Yeah, one of the attempts on my life was right around where Field Marshall George Jackson—Long Live Him! For the record. Long Live Him! . . .

You’ve talked a lot about “the continued counter-insurgency.” We’re wondering if we could look at that in a lot of different ways. Specifically, some people talk about “second-generation COINTELPRO.” This suggests that there’s continued counter-insurgency, for the world; and, at the same time, within that, there’s a concerted campaign against children of Black revolutionary figures targeted by COINTELPRO themselves. That would include you, for example; Tupac; Khadafi from Outlawz, who was Sekou Odinga’s son; and Mumia [Abu-Jamal] has a son. . . .

Right. So is this an important formulation for you? “Second-generation COINTELPRO,” in other words?

It’s important that we put that in its correct political context. . . . In many cases, the state knows our own potential if we don’t know our potential ourselves. I always say that in the eyes of the United States government, I’m a three-strike offender: 1) just for specifically being Afrikan; 2) for being the son of Deputy Chairman Fred and also Akua Njeri; and 3) for continuing to fight for the liberation of my people.

Let the record reflect: I take the position: I’m cool with, in fact honored, to be referred to as a “criminal.” The FBI [Federal Bureau of Investigation] admits themselves that the daughter of Malcolm X. . . .

. . . Agents were spying on her, when she was in elementary school, just for being the daughter of Malcolm. Malcolm’s only male heir, Malcolm Shabazz, is held captive right now in a New York concentration camp; he was in Comstock [Prison], but he was transferred. And, ironically, at one time, he was cell mates or in the next cell to Deondre Williams, the grandson of [Black historian] Chancellor Williams [author of The Destruction of Black Civilization, 1971].

It’s just like on the plantation. The state—they study potential. They study bloodlines. . . . It’s important that we put this in its correct political context, you know what I’m saying?

Now, could you tell us more about your Mom, Akua Njeri? A lot of the times people may just focus on your Dad, to the exclusion of her, although we certainly want to focus on him enough, and although we hear you correcting that tendency already. We heard of her on an interview program with another sister soldier, recently, something posted on the internet.1

I’m saying this all objectively; I’m not just being subjective. The sister I know stood strong in the face of seeing her husband-comrade being placed in Menard [Prison]. Twenty-some years later, her son-comrade is in the same concentration camp, Menard. The impact she’s had not only on my life, but some of my people, the impact that she continues to have is tremendous. She takes the position that I take, that when you say “Free Fred!” it is bigger than Chairman Fred Hampton, Jr. Since I’ve been back on the streets, she’s still engaging in the work and fighting for the freedom of all political prisoners and the liberation of our people. She’s president of the December 4th Committee. . . .

. . . which has taken on such campaigns as NRD: “National Revolutionary Day.” That’s December 4th of every year. This is not just about getting together on December 4th. It’s a lot of work being put in place to make sure that these legacies of such forces as Chairman Fred, Defense Captain Mark Clark and other revolutionaries are kept intact.

We see so many times that even after they kill us in one way, they come to kill us in another way. These are our legacies, you know what I’m saying?

That work taken on by the December 4th Committee is important. For example, a lot of cats struggle and they be like, “Well, you say ‘Chairman Fred.’ That’s your father. Why do you say ‘Chairman Fred?’” It’s not an ego trip, I gotta be strategic about it. This is a part of bringing our people to respect the most disrespected occupation, that being revolutionaries.

What I mean by that is you can do a test. You can say “Minister Huey P. Newton,” “Professor Bozo” . . .

. . . and “Chairman Fred Hampton.” And like automatic drive, people say “Fred” and “Huey” but [the other] is “Professor.” We’ve all be colonized. We have our bourgeoisie tendencies. Like second nature, on automatic drive, it’s automatic for us to respect what the ruling class says is official and so on and so forth. Even the terms we use—on December 4th there was a massacre on my row; there’s a “Ground Zero.” All of these terms aren’t down for some sort of slick sound-byte. I gotta say cats respect everything except revolution. They respect Hip-Hop. They respect religion; you refer to the Imam as “Imam.” You don’t call DMX “Earl Simmons,” you call him DMX.

So it’s a whole strategic move that we implement, consciously. It ironic because without these forces, the other positions ain’t covered. You know what I’m saying? The whole thing about December 4th is that it’s a day we want you to recognize the contributions of all revolutionaries, past and present, and not in any nostalgic sense. What Chairman Fred said, “If you ever think about me and you ain’t talking about no revolutionary act, forget about me—I don’t want to come to your mind.”

Recognize Jerry Dunigan, “Odinga,” one of the longest held political prisoners in Illinois, member of the Black Panther Party. The Mumia Abu-Jamal’s and so on and so forth. So put it into practice.

Something else that is being discussed which connects with many of these issues is what some people are calling “Rap COINTELPRO,” these Hip-Hop surveillance squads that have totally come out of the closet at this particular point, particularly in New York, Miami and Los Angeles. The state is outright persecuting Hip-Hop artists who other people often don’t identify as “political.” Have you followed the “Hip-Hop Cop” stuff? Do you have any comments on it?

The mistake that we as a people make a lot of times is we let the state’s or the ruling class’s definition of politics determine how we will resist or what we define as political. Malcolm [X] says it very well, “You can lay down and let them walk all over you, then say, ‘Master, am I cool now?’ And they’ll say, ‘Naw, nigger, turn over!’” So even if you take the position that you don’t have nothing to do with politics. . . . You don’t have to be a warrior for them to snatch you up. There are no neutrals in this war that’s being waged on our people. We got to seize the time when they start applying these political terms to it: “Hip-Hop Cops.” We been clear about counter-insurgency. They study fashion, everything about us. A lot of times we don’t recognize until the ruling class gets certain terms. Now everybody can acknowledge that the “Patriot Act” is an updated version of COINTELPRO. Our position is that counter-insurgency has never ceased. In fact, it’s more intense and more Machiavellian under such euphemisms as “War on Drugs,” “War on Guns,” “War on Gangs.”

Similar to that, certain contradictions were exposed around the “Red Squad” or other elite police agencies not only in Chicago but across this country when they violated the rights of white Left organizations, such as SDS (Students for a Democratic Society). They were engaged in these tactics. In fact, one sergeant who got all these different law enforcement agencies together to arrest me was the same sergeant was involved in the surveillance and assassination of Chairman Fred. When they were doing these surveillance tactics, it wasn’t under an official code; when it happened to white Left forces, or whatever, it became acknowledged.

It’s sad to say, but when the ruling class gives us a term for it (“Hip-Hop Cop”), we get clear and start talking. Look at the founder of Interscope and Ted Field—brother of Marshal Field. The founder is CIA—by his own admission. Look at Edgar Bronfman, and Edgar Bronfman, Jr. [Polygram, MCA, Universal Pictures, Warner Music, etc.]. Edgar Bronfman’s bankroll came from his grandfather, Samuel Bronfman, who got his loot running liquor during Prohibition to the Lucianos and the Capones. When Prohibition was outlawed, Samuel Bronfman turned into Seagram’s Gin. We ain’t even connected this to Snoop Dogg jumping up and talking about “Gin and Juice.”

Now, we can debate whether or not a cat is able to debate their particular political line or if they know what they’re doing. But everything is political and the reality is a lot of the times we don’t come to grips with certain things until the ruling class says so. The masses have been putting out the outcry that the government puts the drugs in the community. When Gary Webb, white dude with the San Jose Mercury News, when he writes about it, it becomes a “fact.” This is the dude who they claimed who committed suicide when it was said he was about to do a biography on George Bush.

Yessss, they be Bushwhacking people—like that sister who accused him of rape.

. . . come up missing! They say “suicide.” “Fresher than Colgate, Deeper than Watergate.”

There were also reports about the decision they made, when you were still locked down, inside, to move you to a supermax prison—Tamms, was it called? Did that actually go down? Can you talk about your experience of that and the whole outgrowth of supermax prisons?

They had put out this propaganda for this $72 million, modern-day murdering machine, Tamms, which was supposed to be implemented for “the worst of the worst,” gang leadership, those imprisoned for assaults, and so on. I was clear about what Tamms was designed for. I almost pinpointed the date when I was gonna be snatched up and taken to Tamms.

It was September 31, 1998. I was supposed to be laid over at this camp called Graham. Graham refused me at the door and said, “We don’t want him to come in here, period.” “Well, this is procedure; he has to come in there,” they said. But Graham said, “We don’t want him in here for two seconds.” You know, “He’ll starting organizing,” and so on and so forth.

So then on the way there, one of the pigs who was driving me and knew me from another camp, Shawnee, he was like, “I remember you.” He referred to me as “George Hampton.” That’s what he called me, “George Hampton.” He said, “You were at Shawnee in ’97. I recall when we urinated all on your property.” This is the pig admitting this, telling me this.

Then they say, “Fred Hampton.” Then they pull you up into to this big warehouse, real, pitch dark. He said, “Your tour is going to be over this time. I know who you are.” They have a take on “Orange Crush,” the goon squad for the pigs, their elite beat-down crew. So they pop up; they run up on me fast; psychologically, they start hollering--with oak sticks. I say, “Look, you know me. Can we go past this part of the procedure?” They tell the pigs, “Yeah, y’all can miss him with that.”

Automatic drive, they stop. They take me to this . . . thing. This makes the correlation to chattel slavery. They have these cubicles. You’re stripped naked. All of sudden, to further demoralize you, the female pigs pop up—while you’re naked.

Then they would turn you full circle and claim to search for scars and tattoos. But it’s reminiscent of the auctions blocks of slavery. You’re shackled on your ankles, shackled on your wrists. And you’ll be taken to different parts. Of course, this is done just like the “breaking” procedure. They snatch you up from Africa and you go through the seven-year “seasoning” procedure, “break” you up in “tribes” and so on and so forth.

Due to the support of the people, we were able to set a ground-breaking move by saying, “Get me up out of Tamms.” Calls were coming in from all over the world, African, London, all over the world.

Around 1990, I was the local president of the National Democratic People’s Uhuru Movement, which was a mass movement which fights to defend the basic democratic rights of African peoples. In 1992, I was kidnapped—due to trumped-up charges of aggravated arson and subsequently sentenced to eighteen years. Under the leadership of the National Democratic People’s Uhuru Movement, there was a campaign, and it grew to be an international campaign, to free Fred Hampton, Jr. A number of forces played a key role in it. I’ve spoken about the role dead prez played, with the piece “Behind Enemy Lines” [on Let’s Get Free, 2000]. Around ’96, at Big Muddy River [“Correctional Center”]—we call it Big Bloody River—we formed the POCC, the Prisoners of Conscience Committee, while held captive. Later on in ’98, we were formulating the platform and so forth. I was getting back to different words and different struggles. I said, “What can we use? What can be the catalyst, regardless of differences in political ideologies or whatever, for some points of unity, while maintaining our positions as revolutionary activists?” This was the time period. The POCC, that’s been the major tool I’ve been using to form principled coalitions. I attended the convention a few years back in St. Petersburg, Florida, and even the tribunal that was held recently in Philadelphia. The politics of [Omali] Yeshitali [of the All-African Peoples Revolutionary Party] has had a profound impact on my life and my organizing tactics. But there’ve been a number of strategic moves I’ve done with the POCC for a number of strategic reasons, at this stage of the game.2

We’ve seen some workshop resolutions from Omali Yeshitali’s group that are amazing, just amazing.

Also, let me add, when we say POCC, a lot of times people draw the foregone and incorrect conclusion that this is a “prison activists” organization. But, no. Another case in point would be when the Black Panther was initially formed, it was the Black Panther Party for Self-Defense. They recognized the most direct contradiction or atrocity that people could identify with, you know, was “police brutality” or police terrorism. The most right-up-in-your-face is the question of the pigs. There’s the whole thing, all the tentacles of the counter-insurgency.

The “we don’t care” health care, the chemical-biological warfare being waged on our people; the mis-education of colonial schools; the non-access to medication.

Still, what’s stopping you from going up in there and snatching medication, you know what I’m saying, for the Ebola-AIDS virus? What’s stopping you from taking control of these schools? What’s stopping you from going up there and snatching these Mumia’s and Sundiata’s [Sundiata Acoli] and all the rest of our most valuable resources? The pigs! In this war that’s being waged on us, it’s clear that the pigs are the front line.

This is in the spirit of what Minister Huey P. Newton said when he said that the prison is the microcosm of the outside community. In other words, it’s just more intense. The video cameras that they place in Death Field on Monday, they’ll be on college campuses … by Monday night, probably. Already.

So we use this as a case-example, you know what I’m saying? At the same time, we’re being careful not to become just some sort of “prison activists.” We’re remaining clear that there’s got to be independence for our people, throughout the world.

We’ve heard you use this other phrase many times: “safe struggles.” You denounce these “Oprah Winfrey-type” struggles, things that have already been tagged in advance as more or less “political” while all of these other things which are killing us don’t targeted in the same vein, in the same context, for political movement. For the record, will you please address the issue of “safe struggles” vs. the sort of struggles we have been talking about thus far?

You’ll see people engage in certain struggles or campaigns and they want to engage in some kind of exercise in futility. They really don’t want anything to happen. They throw up their campaign in the abstract, in a way that is not tangible. People can become teary-eyed and yet not care about the victims they claim to be “concerned” about. When women are being mistreated across the seas, you don’t care about them; and, then, they will negate the fact that there are seventeen-year-old sisters in Cook County Jail who are forced to rinse out their sanitary napkins, for re-use, right now today. They’ll talk about the way prisoners are being mistreated across the seas, and so on and so forth, but they know that they’re doing it in a way so that they can’t be called to question on nothing, here or there. They dare not speak on mothers in Pontiac who are forced to go on visitation with black knit-masks on their faces and mouthpieces. It would bring it home in a concrete type of way. What the state does is they try to find these diversions or get us to fight for something safe in a safe type of way.

Back to our legacies, they try to even deal with our legacies in a safe type of way. I use the example from a few years back when they had Muhammad Ali on the Wheaties box. An interviewer asked a representative, “Ali was an extraordinary athlete back in the ’60s. Why didn’t you have him on there then?” The response from the Wheaties representative was, “He’s safe now.” That’s the best example. They try to do this with out legacies. They try to do this to us while even we’re here sometimes—water us down. What’d they say on the Oprah Winfrey show? “When Malcolm said ‘By Any Means Necessary’ he meant political education, and economics.” Garbage! The man told you point blank, “The Ballot or the Bullet.” Don’t front with it. They try to water it down or flip the script on you.

Yeah, so “By Any Means Necessary” will mean either “Republican” or “Democratic” party politics in the U.S.! [Laughter]

Explain to us what “Math for the Masses” means: “Math for the Masses,” is that correct?

“Math for the Masses.” And you don’t have to be a calculus student to understand it! We don’t care if you’re running for garbage collector in Detroit, Michigan, or state senator in Illinois or president of the United States: NO position on political prisoners + NO position on reparations + NO position on the African Anti-Terrorism Bill3 = NO vote.

Let me say this, too: I came under criticism. “How can Chairman Fred say he political and the first time he ever voted in his life was when he voted for Aaron Patterson?” Aaron Patterson ran for state rep—and at the top of his agenda was the African Anti-Terrorism Bill. It’s an insult when people put this idea out that people died for the right to vote, which I disagree with. People fought for self-determination.

People used different tools, yes. Let’s say hypothetically. Make sure you . . don’t, don’t . . .

Hypothetically, if that was the case, as somebody said “we died for that,” if my Auntee died for a pendant and left me a pendant, I’m going to use this wisely. If somebody died for something, why would you not be strategic about how you use it? But that’s hypothetically. The fact is people gave life and paid the ultimate sacrifice in the fight for the right to self-determination.

Exactly. Now we should talk about this film, which some of saw on-line for a minute; it was called The Murder of Fred Hampton?

We officially renamed it The Assassination of Chairman Fred. What happened that day was one of the most brutal acts of terrorism to ever occur on U.S. soil. That’s what it was, the assassination of Chairman of Fred.

The film takes you through the streets of Chicago and some of the day-to-day organizing that the Black Panthers were engaged in. Man, you can virtually see the growth of such forces as Minister Ronald “Doc” Satchel, who is my godfather and who was the Minister of Health. Chairman Fred recruited him right off one of those college campuses. He was responsible for [almost speechless] so much. Man: Real health-care. Everything is political. Like, you go to these institutions that talk down to people. You know what I’m saying? As Chairman Fred said, you go in there with a common cold and you come up dead—just by happenstance, some rich white family needed your sex organs, your brain tissue. . . .

You know what I’m saying? Chairman Fred said, “If you you’re sick, come and see Dr. Feelgood,” talking about Dr. Satchel. He was a revolutionary. It’s one of my favorite pieces in the flick. . . .

And as Stephen Biko said, we must learn the ability to distinguish intelligence from the ability to articulate. For example, Chairman Fred said the pigs ran up on some sisters running the Free Breakfast Program. They said, “Are you for capitalism?” This sister said, “No. . . . Chairman Fred said that ain’t cool.” The pigs: “Are you for socialism?” She says, “Well, I’m not too clear on them terms.” The pigs say, “What about this Free Breakfast Program?” Then, the sister says, “Pig, this is feeding my kids. If you attempt to fuck with it, we’ll blow your motherfuckin’ brains out!”

They recognized that this was one of their programs. The Black Panther Party turned the community into classrooms. It was a people’s thang.

So how can people get the film, The Assassination of Chairman Fred? Will it be distributed?

Cool. We want to go back to something else, too. You’ve said before that the pigs of Illinois shoot up Chairman Fred, Sr.’s gravesite, on a regular basis; and also that they train with your photo and a picture of him?

Not actually Illinois: Chairman Fred is buried in Haynesville, Louisiana. His tombstone is still shot up. As a matter of fact, speaking to this, about a year ago, a small church right next to where he is buried at mysteriously burned down—the FBI themselves say they’re investigating that right now. . .

No doubt. In Menard [Prison], my photo as well as Chairman Fred’s photo sit in the gun towers. In the majority of the Illinois camps, right now to this day, if you get caught with a photograph of me, you get six months added to your sentence; six months isolation; six months commissary-denial. I was listed at one time and am still listed as far as I know as the number one STG, meaning “Security Threat Group” (in Illinois). The Source magazine, for simply running an article on my case, in 1996, was deemed an STG security threat.

Oh!?! So what’s your particular take on why this ritual of shooting up the gravesite and what not takes place?

Was it Denmark Vesey who, after they murdered him, they chopped up his body in different parts? And they warned the people, “If you ever acknowledge him, you’ll see the repercussions.” The whole way they assassinated Chairman Fred and Minister/Captain Mark Clark was strategic; it was designed to terrify and horrify the masses. When a pregnant sister breaks away from the plantation, they’re not going to go out there and kill her, they bring her back; slit her pregnant stomach open; stomp the fetus to death in front of the masses to send a message to you, “Don’t you ever..” This is part of the “breaking” process. “We will kill you.” It’s the “breaking” process.

It seems like it also exposes the futility of their repression, along the lines of the famous quotation, of course: “You can kill a revolutionary, but you can’t kill the revolution.” They almost recognize that their success in oppression and repression can never be total, or sure. It’s not even clear that they can ever be satisfied with killing the revolutionary if the revolution and the spirit of the revolutionary lives on.

We can’t ever let our guards down. It’s always a fight to maintain these legacies and what these forces represented.

Notes and References

3 “The African Anti-Terrorism Bill is a bill that we're putting forth.... It addresses this phenomenon of terrorism from the viewpoint of the O.V.'s. The O.V's be the Original Victims of Terrorism and that means African people. People who have been subjected to terrorism under such euphemisms as slavery, Jim Crow, red lining, gentrification, etc. We're putting these in their correct context. We say that the crime of terrorism has no statute of limitations. We say that bomb dropped on African women and children, the MOVE organization May 13, 1985 in Philadelphia on Osage Avenue, that was terrorism. Or what happened December, 4th 1969, assassination of Chairman Fred and Defense Captain Mark Clark Defense Captain Mark Clark that was one of our Ground Zero's. Matter of fact, yesterday December 2, 2004 when we mobilized deep to march the one-year anniversary of the cold-blooded shooting of little 17 year-old Darryl Hamilton, the brother was shot by Chicago Police. Shot several times in the back and in the head. He had his face pulled over the concrete up under the surveillance camera. He's an individual that we identify as our modern day Emmett Till. These are all victims of terrorism. In fact, more than that, they are original victims of terrorism. That's just a bill that we're pushing forward and we're holding cats accountable. Whether they come from the white-left or any other community they'll be endless discussion about this phenomenon” [Vibe.com: Tanisha Blakely interviews Chairman Fred Hampton, Jr., in “December 4th: It’s Not Just Jay-Z’s Birthday” (2004)].

Therefore: “The African Anti-Terrorism Bill was created in response to the Patriot Acts I, II and III. The AAT Bill explains the POCC’s positions on what they see as the most pressing issues of terrorism facing communities of African people, including: ‘Police Terrorism, Just-Us System, Concentration Camps (U.S.), Land-Grab, Mis-Education and Chemical and Biological Warfare, on African and Colonized People.’”